And welcome. I'd like to just explain something that we are doing for the first time today that may help our speakers and also the audience. This QR code, if you scan this, it will take you through to an AI translation. So I'm delighted to say that some of our panelists today will be presenting in English, but they may want to take questions in Japanese. So by speaking Japanese you'll be able to get a real time translation anytime they switch between languages. I'd also like to share that at this year's EIC. This is the largest representation that we've had from Japan ever at EIC.
So kin Katrina Des, welcome for those in the audience and those that are watching online and we, we hope that this will be a really wonderful interactive session. So I would like to keep my part of the introduction as brief as possible because our panel of presenters have some really wonderful content to share with you this morning. So a little bit of background, I'm very privileged to have been part of this project over the last six months where we have been looking at solving some of the problems around multi-stakeholder cross border decentralized identity.
And today we have with us ro OK from DMP
Oh DI Nikko from Connect ID in Australia Re from Miko in Belgium, olive Gruver from the National Australia Bank in Australia and URA from MUFG in Japan.
And for the last six months what we've been looking to do as a working group is to explore the technical, the legal and the commercial possibilities to actually put a trust framework and a technical interchange in between Australia and Japan. For those of you that may be interested, post covid after New Zealand, Japan is the most searched destination for Australians.
So we have a great interest not just in culture and food and tourism, but also it's a great skiing destination for us. And we also have a very strong trade agreement between our countries, which means that we have both a steady influx of Japanese visiting Australia for tourism and business and also for international study. So in that context, what we wanted to look at was how could we build trust and our panelists are going to unpack this whole journey of the last six months.
How could we build trust and technical interchange between an Australian with an A cred, a credential issued in Australia, into Japan and vice versa. And what we thought we would do, instead of talking about it, we would actually build something and we would not tempt the demo gods by filming that technical integration to make sure that it works. So what I would like to do is kick off the session with a short demo and everything that you're about to see is real.
So we built an issuer, we built a verifier, and all the technology under the bonnet is real and each of the presenters will take us through that journey from each of the perspectives we've just talked about. So I'd love to kick off with taking you diving into the experience.
Thank you Katrina. Good morning everyone. My name is Ter Komoto from DNP. I'm very honored to have this opportunity to speak out EIC. This is my first time presenting outside of Japan as well as in English.
And to be honest, I am a bit nervous to be speaking as such a prestigious event, but I practiced very hard for today. So I hope that you bear with me.
I hope you enjoyed the video you just saw. But before we dive into the use case, I like to talk about our company and how we envisioned cross border Interability between Japan and Australia. DNP almost approaching 115 years, we are one of the largest printing company in in Japan. Despite being a printing company, our solutions are run by range, including IO OT devices, electronics products and purchasing.
DNP has a top shares for IC cars in Japan market and has years of experience in authentication and security solutions, which is one of DN P'S core businesses. Now DNP is making use of its expertise with physical identity and cultivating businesses in the digital identity domain. Now I would like to share with you our vision of what we we would like to achieve with Japan, Australia cross-border use cases. I'd like to start by explaining the situation in Japan. As many of you may be aware, Japan has many tourist attraction such as Kto, Manzi and home of anime and manga popular among the world.
The number of foreign tourists dropped significantly during COVID-19, but the number has recovered to 60% of what was before the pandemic last two year. The Japanese government is also making effort to attract overseas tourists and I believe that cross border tourists will become increasingly reactive in the future
Maybe known. I like to touch on the issues in tourists. I presume everyone attending today has had a similar experience but waiting line for admission at tourist spots and restaurant is a stressful experience for travelers in Japan.
There are many situations where visitors are required to show their physical passport and purchase ticket and many tourists are forced to waiting long lines. Digitizing Japanese services will be necessary to make the traveling experience more comfortable. Apart from deep tourism, I like to talk about challenges the Japanese retail and service providers are currently facing reselling of artists concept tickets and popular trading costs have become a major social problem in Japan currently cases where identification is required for purchasing popular items at Japanese store have increased.
Japanese service providers are looking for better ways to verify customers to prevent fraudulent resales. I like take a moment and talk about the situation around digital identity. In Asia Pacific region in Japan, the Japanese government is strengthened to effort for digitalization, digitalization, national IDs.
Similarly, various digital identity initiatives are in motion in Asia countries. However, it is important to note that these digital identity initiatives in each country are domestic and cross-border. Cross-border data connection within the Asia Pacific has not been there.
So challenge we choose to tackle is cross border cooperation between Japan and Australia. The two countries share strong economic ties. There are many international student from Japan to Australia every year and the number of tourists from Australia to Japan has completely returned to pre pandemic levels.
Now on the use case, we envisioned a tourist from Australia coming to Japan for sighting. When they come to Japan, tourists will have to free inform such train, reservation, museum ticket reservation and so on. By using an identity that has already been verified at by a trusted party in Australia, the user can quickly complete the processes. We believe this will be beneficial to not only tools but also Japanese service providers as well as they will be able to reduce the cost of verification.
Finally, looking into our future in the Asia. Asia Pacific is a region of diverse cultures. Working together across different cultures, regions and languages is great challenge. While different is the IS approach we are believe is important to find way to collaborate that are unique to the Asia Pacific region. Now I would like to pass the Mike Dema and Y who will be explain the technical details on our cooperation. We would very much like to expand our cross board circle together with everyone in the audience. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Hi everyone. Can you hear me?
Yes, yes. Dima I, I live in Australia and work for a company called Connect. Id Connect ID is next one. I look after briefly on me. I look after ecosystem architecture at Connect, id Connect ID is identity verification network consent based or consent first identity verification network in Australia. We've gone live approximately in October November last year and slowly rolling it out across economy across number of use cases.
I'll briefly describe what Connect ID is, how we operate and why global interoperability is important to us as well as what else is happening in global interoperability space. So Connect ID is a network operator. We are providing essentially a sandbox for global, a sandbox for Australian reliant parties and Australian identity providers to exchange consumer data with consumer consent.
We build this network in a partnership with Australian banks.
So we've got National Australian Bank and Commonwealth Bank Live and two other, the large Australian banks are coming live within the next few months. We play the role of the network operator, we provide the scheme governance, we provide the accreditation for the parties, we provide the scheme support, we set the standards for communication between the parties. We primarily focus being Australian network primarily focused on Australian consumer given that we have Australian identities.
But we also understand that Australian citizens, they travel, they work overseas, they migrate overseas, they love skiing in Japan. That's why global interoperability effort is super important for us. That's why connected for Connect id, it's important to explore different initiatives with different jurisdictions Overseas
Our the, the way we build the network is focused on standards. So we don't reinvent the standards, we don't create connect ID specific standards.
The choice that we make is to profile existing global standards, work with international standards bodies and potentially improve those standards to feed, to feed our requirements. The reason why we use standards is apart from access to the skill and expertise, it's also making sure that our implementations are secure, interoperable, it's easy to test and yes it's easy to roll it out in a secure and interoperable way and it also helps us with the global inter interoperability going forward.
So now briefly touch on what other things happening with the global interoperability.
Many of you have heard about C hub. C HUB is relatively new kid on the block. It's an initiative that's been explored since November last year. Bunch of governments and industry bodies got together and ask a question, why can't we have a global interoperability between different jurisdictions? And it's quite a large forum with a lot of different participants. There was a meeting in Berlin on Monday to progress that initiative.
There was, there were a couple of presentations before and I think you could, you can watch the recording or there might be other discussions going forward as well. So keep an eye on this one. MDL mobile driver's license is being rolled out in the states across multiple states in Europe and in many in states in Australia. There are also global interoperability efforts with the support of ISO community and ISO standardization body to interoperate digital driver's license to make sure that you can present your digital driver's license overseas as well.
Gain GAIN is the initiative that was actually announced two or three years ago at EAC and it was a, a result of collaboration of 150 identity professionals from financial industry and other industries asking the same question. If I have an identity proved in one country, why can't I find a network or way to present it in the other jurisdiction? There have been quite a lot of work done in Open I foundation in the technical working group to work out how this can be achieved and also in OAX in terms of how it can be achieved from a policy level.
And I'll briefly mention, yeah, there are two, I'm pretty sure everyone here heard about it. So that's another cross border interoperability effort that we all hear a lot about this conference. I think that's all for me. I hand about to ya. Yeah.
Hello everyone. I'm y working for Miko from Belgium and I'm excited today to tell tell you more about how our two cloud wallets really underpin this demo that you saw just a few minutes ago. So we have two variations.
We have a holder wallet which is really aimed towards users or things and it allows them to manage their cryptographic keys diss credentials and it enables them to receive and present credentials. Second one is an organization wallet and is really aimed towards any entity that wants to issue or request and verify credentials. They're both built on an exclusively standard based approach. So we implement the latest standards so that our customers don't have to, we, our vision is to simplify identity and personal data management and we do that via an integrated API platform, which we call SVX.
And SVX has three main capabilities, a secure data vault, credentials and then wallet capabilities.
And with IT we want to enable our partners to build and deploy the trusted personal data ecosystems and we also want to connect the developers within those networks to the tools that they need to rapidly set up use cases as the one again that we saw today. But back to how actually did we bridge those two networks, the one in Australia with Connect id and then with the other one in Japan led by DNP.
And when we are sort of exploring this, we discovered two or we, we really were discussing two possibilities. One is to achieve interoperability at the presentation level and this is what you've seen today. So the Australian citizen would use their bank application, the Koala bank, it would get the credential from the bank and would then present that credential to the Sumu Japan verifier variation of this flow is to introduce a third party wallet into the connect ID ecosystem.
And then for example, the Koala bank, IDP could provide the attributes to the issuer to then again get the credential into the wallet and present that to the Sumu Japan verifier.
The other possibility was to do interoperability at the issuance level. So here the Australian citizen could for example, download an Japanese travel application and then it could use the bank's issuance infrastructure to get the credential into the Japanese wallet. And then within their own ecosystem it could then present to the Japanese Sumu Japan website.
We decided that for this first iteration interoperability at the presentation level. So the first option was easier, a little bit less moving parts. So that's what we went for. DMO already gave us some explanation of how important standards are and yesterday I was really enjoying the talk of Dr. Mike Jones where he says, standards are about making choices but the first choice you have to make is to select the standards that are making the right choices. So with that we were, we had a few criteria that we set out.
So we want standards that are internationally accepted, we want them to be freely available so that they can be easily distributed.
And some standards think of iso, it's not that easy to distribute them. We want them to be generic enough so that you can implement any use case. We want them to follow the issuer holder verifier model as this really improves user privacy, but it also is the driver, the enabler of the, of these cross border use cases.
Then we also think that ENA having offline capabilities is quite important as when you go to a country you might not immediately have access to the internet or it might be very expensive. So maybe to get that first EIM card somewhere in the airport, it could be very valuable to have offline capabilities where you can actually prove who you are and then to to yeah, to get that first use case up and running. And then of course data minimization very important for privacy, security and avoid oversharing of information with other parties.
So with those criteria it was actually not really a challenge for to to, to select. And we selected the right profile that already made some of those choices for us and we went with O i's high assurance interoperability profile. It's already leaned very closely to what Dine Connect ID is, is, is advocating for. For those that don't know, and sorry it is a little bit more nerdy, but it uses the SDT VC format.
We as a credential schema we're using, again, starting from what Connect already have, we're looking to expand it with maybe some elements from EKYC and, and we think the work with the EU PIT is also really interesting for issuance and verification. We are, we selected open ID connect and then the open ID for VC set of protocols and then as a trust mechanism we're using Open ID federation and it is already something again used by connect id, it works at scale.
We've see, I've seen that in Tokyo this year where Brazil is really sort of leading the, the charge and with the work from gain, we also know that this is like from a technological perspective and and maybe broader than that already works. So why, yeah, that's why we, we choose about, we've chosen that and also because national operators, yeah, they don't really want to be busy with onboarding foreign entity.
So, so with this federated approach makes a lot of sense now back to our Australian tourists. So they receive the verifiable address credential into the wallet it's seeming is s seamlessly integrated with the between two regions. And I really love this concept from yesterday with the C hub meetup where we're talking about this roaming wallet. So I think, yeah, that's, that that's the key.
And again, this is also an example of that where yeah, like using the standards and the protocols that we use, this really makes it possible for the credential to be verifiable across those to regions.
And oh, as a closing, before I give the word to Olaf as a closing, we are really at the start of this journey and we want to implement this with real banks and sorry Koala Bank, you are really cute but sadly not real. Although I still think there is a missed chance there in Australia to start a new bank.
We also want to implement real wallets and yeah we're, we're, we're on the journey to connect to more of our partners sandbox environments with a goal to actually move this into production. So yeah, with that I thank you if you'd like to hear more and especially if you have strong opinions about some of the choices that we have made. And please come and find me. I'll be at a IC until the end of the week. Thank you.
Thank you.
So gra, I work as the head of product digital identity and access for National Australia Bank. We bank about 25% of the retail market and our Australia's largest business bank. Why they were meta, I will talk about in a second, but I want to bring your attention to sort of two key elements that are really important for the viability of these propositions. One is around customer experience and the other one is around the value proposition.
So if we look at the customer experience, then there are sort of four key elements that I want to bring to your attention, which is the familiarity, ubiquity, adequacy and simplicity of the use cases. And if we start with familiarity then you all know that familiarity breeds contempt, but from a digital flow perspective, that's probably sort of can't be further from the truth because what we are finding is that sort of however subtle the differences are in our experiences, customers notice and it is a drop off point.
So if you look at the image on screen here it is the standard connect ID flow and the login element, the little pad in the middle for the customer that looks subtly different to what the regular banking login looks like and it gives them a moment to pause and we actually see a few people drop off at that point, which then impacts conversion rates. So our learnings from that is we need to stick to as close to what people are familiar with as possible. If we move on to ubiquity here is where sort of, I would like to reference the experience with bank ID in Scandinavia.
And if you look at the adoption curve then there's a distinct inflection point at the moment where bank ID started to service government use cases. And again, these propositions are the more successful, the more people actually see them as part of the digital flows that they are part of individual, they do work, but sort of the more ubiquitous they are, the more comfortable people are with it.
We move then on to adequacy. What we are also finding is that a significant drop off point is created when we transfer them between form factors.
So going from an app to a web view back to an app or vice versa is something that customers really don't take well to. It's a, it's a, it's, it's a break in the flow and it's something that we experience as a significant drop off.
Again, drop offs impact conversion rates and it's something that our relying parties don't take kindly to. So something that we are really paying attention to. Last but not least from a simplicity perspective. So there are distinctly use cases where you would only do an identity verification, whether it's a sign up, whether it's a, I'm not a bot or similar use cases, that's where it works in a standalone fashion.
But if you look at the classical e-commerce flow where you have a sign up and then sort of a, a payment along the way or an H verification and a payment, what actually pays off, no pun intended, is that you actually combine those use cases into a single transaction.
And that's something that we are working with chaining transactions generally sort of impacts the customer experience in a way that isn't conducive to people completing that flow.
With that, let's talk about the value proposition and it was mentioned already, but I just wanted to have on about that point. So Australia is an, is a is a migrant economy if you will. And as you can tell from my accent, I'm one of them. So we take in literally hundreds of thousands people of people per year. But we also have significant immigration where Australians choose to live, work and study abroad. And Australians, for better or for worse likes to travel.
I'm sure all of you have met one along the way and it's, it's something where we certainly want to be, where we support them in significant life moments, which then brings me to the value proposition from an identity provider perspective IE us.
And so we really sort of again want to show up for our customers and in doing so create that customer engagement with our online offerings and extending digital banking into a digital identity proposition is an ideal way to help and create a delightful customer experiences.
And it also, and that's sort of my second point in this context, it honors the trust that they place in us because what we are finding, and there's a study out there by the Bank of International Settlements that shows that in a significant number of geographies, people actually test their banks more than their government. And it's something that we just want to be really building on in the sense that if, if they trust us to handle their money safely, they would also trust us to handle their data responsibly and disclose it selectively.
And last but not least, and this is where I come back to us being the largest business bank in Australia, we actually see a significant demand from our business customers who want us to show up in this way for them because any data that they collect is a a potential data breach.
And while we, despite recent breaches assume that larger enterprises usually sort of have their data security practices in place, a lot of smaller businesses certainly expect that as well experience that as a significant impulse on them and they would like us to support them in this way.
If we then turn the page and go over to the relying parties, then certainly there's a lot about the the bottom line. So digital identity creates higher conversion rates which then improves the bottom line. It also improves their operational expenditure in the sense that the data is of higher quality, there's a level of assurance, there's less cleanup effort required later on. And last but not least, another data point that I wanted to bring to your attention and I'm indebted to Rod Boothby for bringing that to our attention.
Visa has done a study that shows that bank ID in Scandinavia has led to fraud rates in e-commerce of 0.00042%.
Whereas generally sort of globally it's accepted that e-commerce has a fraud rate of about 3%. And if you're working a low margin business like e-commerce, going from 3% to significantly less than 1% is a massive impact to the bottom line. There's a last part of the value proposition which is around how do you create a sustainable ecosystem and digital identity is nothing that stands still, you bring it to market and then never touch it again.
It's a continuous evaluation, new use cases, new technologies, new approaches such as international probability that ecosystem needs to sustain itself. And that's why in our context we have chosen to work with relying parties to capture some of the value that is generated on their side in order to drive a sustainable ecosystem. So with that said, out of the way you might want, you might wonder sort of what is the use case that that a bank can actually support in this context and certainly connect ID is a proposition that is focused on high volume, low risk use cases.
No one has a risk appetite to onboard a customer or let someone hop on a plane off the back of a digital identity that's further into the future. But simple things like opening a bank account and pre-populating the data is something that we experience as really valuable in this context. We see a lot of migrants struggling with concepts like is it first name, given name, where does it fit? And something that can pre-populate an application form already gets them far into the journey and makes it a much more delightful experience.
And it is something that we are looking to go into with again on the basis that this would be a high volume, a low risk use case. And with that I leave you to my Esteem colleague from MUFG.
Okay, thank you. Hello everyone.
I'm, my name is Qui Omura from MEFG Tokyo and I believe this is our first presentation as a firm in this is it, did you make a presentation last year? No, you did. So it's the first time for the MAFG Tokyo to make a presentation in this conference. So I would like to touch a upon how we view the digital identity area from Tokyo.
So to start with this, I'm gonna it, it's a very wordy presentation so I'm gonna explain. So this is to explain where Japan is at In this field the government of Japan has announced a policy which is called a data free flow with trust.
We call it DFFT in the devil's conference in 2019. Some of you may know this is the concept to promote a free flow of data, ensuring the trust in terms of privacy, security and the IP rights. And also in 2020 the cabinet con secretariat has established trusted web promotion council to improve trust in the digitalized economy and society. We believe that digital ID can be one of the leading solutions for ensuring trust and reliability and play central role in the implementation of this policy called DFFT.
And therefore this field digital ID aligns seamless seamlessly with the objectives of the Japanese government's initiatives. So next page is about who we are. Some you have may have heard, some you may have not, but MEFG is a financial institution in Japan, both operating in domestic and internationally. When you look at the domestic market, one out of four Japanese individuals and one out of three Japanese corporates are MEFG clients. That being said, MEFG is in a very good position to enhance the this digital ID initiative in Japan and create the market.
The next page is where we are.
So to be honest, MEFG us, my colleague here has been a professional in this area for a long time I guess. But the head office has started the research and exploring this field recently about a year and a half ago. So we are new to the market, but MEFG is exploring a variety of use cases and one example here that I have today is the metaverse space. We believe metaverse is where you need the most trust as you would not have any methods to identify who you're talking to, who you're playing to or who you're paying to.
So we have started a development of ID identity wallet to be used in such space last April. So we're hoping that this would be developed within a year to be used in metaverse. Coming back to this POC, we have chosen a travel sector as a A sector for A POC. Why travel? Our travel sector in Japan is one of the very few growing market in Japan. It the market size has reached approximately over 30 billion in US dollar basis and it's is still keep, it's keeping growing year by year.
And from an Australian perspective, the income of Australian tourists that came to Japan in March, 2024 has almost doubled the figures in 2019. So this is a big connection that we have between our countries. And that's being said, we believe distributing of VCs across the market would provide convenience, security and accuracy which the market lacks today.
And by enhancing growth of the travel sector, MEFG hopes it will lead to regionalization, which is also a national issue that we have today in Japan.
And also from another point of view, when you travel, you have various touch points to across multisectors. So you book a hotel, you take the transports and you go to retailers. So it is a good sector to deep dive to see where is the strongest demand is at for the DI digitalized identity. This is the last page for the presentation and this is to show how the PLC is to be operated. So if you look at number one, MEFG aims to serve as an in intermediary between Australian trust anchors, which is NAB and CBA and the Japanese service providers.
And we, our goal is to offer assurance to the Japanese service providers. There's a couple of challenges to be honest, to realize this service. One point is that the Japanese authority, we do have to have a cold clinic conversation with the JA Japanese authority who looks over the banks banking sector. If they would be comfortable for our bank to serve such kind of service.
Personally I am very optimistic, but the, there is a need of our conversation.
The second point is within the service providers, the car, the car providers, hotels, the re retailers, they all have their individual restrictions, regulations that they have to comply through this PLC. We aim to clarify how this, this digital ID service could adopt and engage with each and every one of the service providers needs.
And hope, I hope, I really hope it will lead to a creation of the trust providing market in Japan. I believe that's all for today. So should we go on to the QA session? Thank you very much.
First of all, didn't everyone do such a fantastic job? That was really wonderful. So what we'd like to do now is to open the floor to questions.
It's important to consider that we've been exploring just over the last six months the technical which yarn and dimmer addressed, but also MUFG and NAB looking and with connect id looking at the trust screens for any of you that saw the presentation yesterday or have been looking at some of the work of OIX to start looking at what could actually be accepted or where you have to align or where you have to adapt policies. So we're very happy to take questions that may be either legal, technical or commercial.
And I can already see a show of hands
I'll go to
I also if you, if if you wanna respond in Japanese that's fine, we'll
Translate.
Speaker 10 00:43:15 But you don't have to ans ask in Japanese.
Speaker 11 00:43:17 No, I don't speak Japanese.
I'm, I could use Italian if it's okay for you. Oh, go. Yes. Okay. Now just two questions. One word small in the demo that we have seen, there was a connected the option and just below it there was my Europe option.
What is, is my Europe, because I I'm from Europe, I've never seen my Europe in my life. So
Maybe the way, I mean we sort of intentionally put it there because I I, and I was quite sure, I mean I had a debate with Katrina that this would maybe have lead to some questions, but sort of my thinking behind it is that first of all my Europe doesn't exist. It's more of a concept where there might be different schemes that make different options.
And then from with my technical brain, I was thinking okay, maybe we need to inform the wallets that receive that from where the request comes and that could sort of lead yeah, us towards this yeah, NASCAR problem for identity, which I know is very yeah, sort of controversial potentially, but, but, but, but yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm just struggling to see there only being one button that can do it all.
Speaker 11 00:44:30 Okay, perfect.
Word is particularly fun if he doesn't understand your language because the kind of translation that it makes a wonderful, but in any case, no most important thing. Second question, usually this, this kind of decentralized systems are particularly interesting to consider unless you factor in the cost to manage them. Because when you have to exchange attributes, the quality of attributes means that you have incurring a lot of costs. So what is was not clear for me from this very interesting presentation is who is going to pay for the service in the long run?
Because in Europe this for a good part will be subsidized in many ways, but the governments, but this, this seems to me more a private led initiative.
Probably try to answer that from my side. So I think the key here is and probably didn't come through. So what we are testing here is how do we connect to existing networks in two different countries. So there is an existing or a network being built in Japan, there is an existing network in Australia, there could be another existing network somewhere else, like my Europe one day, this is we building on top of the existing functionality.
The standards have evolved significantly and harmonized significantly over the last couple years and that's still happening. So that allows us for that low cost connectivity, a low cost translation, there's still a little bit of work that needs to be done typically within these networks in terms of who pays the verifier or the reliant party pays for attributes. So for verification, so we build in on top of that. We haven't gone into the exercises, how do we do cross border charging and what type of subscription? So pricing model potentially could be there.
That's one of the next steps once we get to the production. Yeah,
Speaker 10 00:46:18 Please.
Speaker 12 00:46:19 Yeah. Hi there. Sebastian from Umbrella Associates. First of all, I'd like to commend our Japanese guests being first time speakers here. You did outstanding. That was really a great presentation. You did very, very well. Can I have a round of applause? Yep. I know that's a stressful situation. So one question to all of my friend, I hope you don't mind me doing that in the third step, there was SMS based authentication in the year 2024. Why is that?
We have pass keys, we have biometrics on the device. Why SMS?
There's only so much we can do at any one point in time and for whatever reason it's, it's still the, the way to go at the moment. It's is it something that I'm excited about? Probably not. Is it something I'm working on? Absolutely.
So yes, point taken but, and watch this space.
Speaker 12 00:47:16 Thanks so much.
We're building on
Speaker 10 00:47:19 Existing. Any more questions?
Oh, right at the back. Okay.
Oh, oh wow, hang on. I think you were first actually. Thank you.
Speaker 13 00:47:33 Hi. So today if I go and book something online, I have browser order complete and it has my email address bidding information and so on, and credit card details, all that. Could you tell, could you speak a bit more about beyond a, you know, slightly more seamless user experience, what are the additional benefits, you know, perhaps in terms of security, privacy and so on?
Well I can sort of certainly talk to that.
So as I, as I sort of try to elaborate from a consumer perspective, auto complete and everything works really well. Once you are on the other side, all of that becomes immaterial because you just have data that you cannot rely on. And having an additional signal that says this is actually information that was verified by a bank is tremendously value valuable for relying party in terms of generating operational efficiencies.
So that, that's really frequently we go what's my perspective as a user, but we really need to understand the other side as well.
Speaker 13 00:48:51 Thanks.
Speaker 10 00:48:53 One second. Sorry lemme bring the mic back up here. I didn't think I'd have to run through this job.
Also, it's important to note that in Japan as a tourist there are many things including in a department store where you have to actually use your passport to prove that you're eligible. So many of the experiences that are connected to tourism buying a rail ticket, so there's, there are many products that are designed for the tourist industry and you must be able to prove that you are actually a foreigner. So this requires you maybe for a day trick trip to wander around with your passport or high assurance valuable information.
So this is a way of not only improving that experience but also as Oliver said, increasing the trust. But it also means that somebody can go off to the day to mount Fuji with their phone in their pocket and not have to be also taking maybe their passport or important documents with them. So a big part of it is the way tourism in Japan currently works and the opportunity to extend that trust but also create convenience but also not require somebody to be carrying around physical documents that may give a lot more data away than is needed.
Speaker 10 00:50:15 Thanks Katrina.
So there's some questions down. Ah, right. All in a row.
Okay, so there you go.
Speaker 13 00:50:22 Thank you. I'm actually Japanese so I can ask in Japanese too. But two questions. The first one is very quick one, how many relying parties and holders were involved in this POC? Because this is cross border, I just wanna see what you're envisioning for the scalability for the future. And the second question.
Oh yeah, go ahead.
Okay, I'll go.
You, you're okay. You have a mic?
Yeah, yeah. The numbers are not defined yet. At this moment we are seeking to explore, expand the numbers. They are the first few companies, maybe 4, 5, 6 is already defined, but within the progress we seek to increase the numbers.
Speaker 13 00:51:12 How about holders? The POC
Holders? You mean the the holders? The
Speaker 13 00:51:20 The the holders, the VC holders?
Yeah, at at this moment this POC, we do not use the actual individual. Okay. Information.
So it's, we don't have an nu actual numbers we just tested.
Speaker 13 00:51:38 Thank you. Yeah. The second question is, this is interesting because the credential is issued by banks. So for future do you envision any payment integration or unique, you know, benefit for utilizing the bank issued credentials?
Like, okay, thank you very much. I understand that this authentication or the authentication and payment is very close and the example that I showed in metaverse, the service that we seek to imply in that area is the payment and authentication two in one service together in this POC, we're not there yet, but we understand that the payment is fundamentally very close to the service. Thank you.
Speaker 13 00:52:40 Next question please.
Speaker 14 00:52:42 Hi, my name is Deborah. Sorry I have not much voice today. So I'm from Les. Thank you very much.
It's super interesting presentation. My question is around trust. So how do relying parties or verifiers trust the credential that they receive? So do you also exchange policy metadata or is there some legal agreement underpinning trust in this cross border exchange?
Happy to start answering that question. So trust is, is a concept of many different layers, right? So we do have at the moment exercise within the working group where we map proofing policies in one jurisdiction against proofing policies in another jurisdiction to understand how the trust can be established.
It's not, it's not automated. I think at the moment it's at the mapping level, at discussion level in general, we would encapsulate the trust within each of the networks. So we would expose this network has this, this levels of assurance supported and these levels of assurance will be transmitted during the data transfer. But in terms of governance of those levels of assurance, that will be done within each network.
So we're trying to encapsulate it, but it's early days in terms of the actual automation process of that like smart wallet concept and the other things that have been discussed in OIX, that's probably the future at this stage. We just wanna make it visible and understood. The reliant party from Japan understands that in order for identity to be proved in Australia, these are the steps that have been performed and I can make a decision at the moment their own decision, whether they trust it or not and how much they trust it.
Speaker 15 00:54:28 Okay.
One final question at the front
Here and then we'll wrap it up.
Speaker 15 00:54:31 Alex from three edges, just maybe a quick question. I wonder what your respective governments think of this or are they going to issue credentials at some point? Or are they looking at what you're doing? How would that play out in that case?
So I can sort of start on that one. We have run a series of what we call design sprints across academia, government, and private sector to address exactly that question. And that initiative has been very much welcomed by the Australian government.
We have also been heavily involved in consultations around the recently past digital identity legislation that explicitly foresees a combination of public private sector identity providers. So in that sense it is something that, from what we've heard, is certainly welcomed by the Australian government, both at the federal as well as at the state level,
Speaker 15 00:55:25 Say for Japan,
Oh, well in Japan, like I said, the Japanese government and direction and our direction is fully aligned. And when you talk about the, the banking authorities, they are aligned as well.
So we, at this moment today, we have a similar service. We call it we dis, we distribute client's information with client's consent of course, to the third party. This service has been already implied in, it's in service at now. So this is something that is in the same direction. So that's why I'm personally optimistic that the government and the authority would be happy to have this in service.
Speaker 10 00:56:26 Okay, thanks. I'm gonna hand over back to Katrina now to wrap things up.
Thank you very much
And, and I think DMP, if you get a chance to speak Totaro after this, has done some really interesting work with the Japanese government on the trusted web as well. So I think there's a very strong collaboration happening in Japan. So I'd like to thank everyone. This has been an extraordinary journey over the last six months. Even just getting everyone to agree on a non-disclosure agreement, how we could share logos.
I mean, you can't imagine what a collaborative process this has been to have this unified experience, but it gives me so much hope and inspiration that we are moving in the right direction. And I would love to think that we could be back here next year with some results of actual holders, some outcomes and updates on these three streams, work around the technical, the legal, and the commercial. So thank you so much for attending. Thank you for those that are watching online. And a round of applause for our wonderful presenters.