Webinar Recording

How to Cope with Challenging Identities in a Converged World

Posted on Jun 18, 2015

Over the past years the term of the Identity Explosion, depicting the exponential growth of identities organizations have to deal with, raised. We introduced the need for a new ABC: Agile Business, Connected. While agility is a key business requirement, connected organizations are a consequence of both the digital transformation of business and of mobility and IoT. This rapid evolution in consequence means that we also have to transform our understanding of identities and access.

Presentation, KuppingerCole

Presentation, neXus

Lead Sponsor

Video Description

Show Transcript

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to our Ko, a call webinar, how to cope with challenging identities in a converged world. This webinar is supported by anus. The speakers today are me marking Ko around the principal Analyst at Ko a call and per Haru who's CTO at nexus, we will discuss the influence of what is happening around identities and all the challenges which are related to these identities, not only of humans, but also of things of other people, of externals, etc. So there's a lot of stuff we will discuss. And this is basically our topic for today.

Before we start short information, keeping a call and some housekeeping for the webinar. So keeping call analysis company, providing research advisory services and events through variety of different services, we run a number of events. So we plan to do an, they went in November in Australia. We will do our European identity and cloud conference next year, again, May 10th to 13th in Munich. And there's a number of seminars, other types of events coming up. Plus our webinars guidelines for the webinar you center, you don't have to mute on with yourself. We are controlling these features.

We will record the webinar and the podcast recording will be available by tomorrow and there will be a Q and a session at the end. So when you look at the right side of your screen, there's a good webinar control panel. Usually it's a right at the right side, we will find an area questions and you can end the questions at any time using this feature. We then will pick these questions at the end of the session and go through them and provide our answers. The agenda for today is split into three parts.

So the first part, I will talk about new requirements for identities and access that are needed to manage access to information in a converting world. And the second part, then Perro will provide insight into what technologies we can expect to be used, how these are used in a dynamic way and how identities will change the way how we do business and how we interact with others. The serve pattern will be the Q and a session as I already mentioned. So let's directly start with my presentation. So just recently I put together some eight fundamentals for the digital transformation.

The digital transformation stuff is something which is very close also to what is happening in the identity area. I will not go through all of these fundamentals, but I will touch some few of them. And one of these fundamentals is that the digital transformation affects every organization. So there is a lot of things happening. So we see the smart Watchers. We see the connected vehicles. We see smart homes. We see smart grids. We see eBooks in the publishing industry. We see digital music. We see online retail, we see online payment manufacturing.

A lot of these stuff is already here and it changes the way organizations act. It changes the business models. It changes the competition. And it's not that we could say there's an organization which is not affected by the digital transformation. It's really the fact that regardless of what industry you look at, things are changing. And that means we have to react on this. We have to interact differently with our customers. We have to deal with connected things with new types of technology.

And we also have to think about how this information shared, how can access to information happen in the future. All the, these things around that are then leading back to our core topic for today, which is around identity and access in this changing world and this connected world and this convergence conversion world. And basically in what happen is happening around the digital transformation. So my second fundamentalist, this is something so you could easily say, okay, yeah, a lot of hype in there, most of these things will disappear. No they won't. So from my perspective, it's very clear.

The digital transformation is here to stay. And we had a lot of transformations, a lot of change over the time. So the Trump Kaiser William two ones that I believe in the horse, the automobile is trusted passing phenomenon, Canon that CEO of deck back in the 1970s, that there's no reason anyone would want the computer in their own. Today. We have computers. If you take our smartphones, carry them around and probably a lot of other things.

So smart watches, etcetera, a lot of people are carrying around a number of really capable devices right now, all the time, child Chaplin, by the way, said cinemas, little more than a fad. What audience really want to see is flesh and blue on stage. So he came pretty popular in cinema.

Anyway, while deck, at some point disappeared, Darrell Sok, 20 century Fox television, won't be able to hold to any market. It captures after first six months, quite long, six months rock and roll will begun by tune and that they meant tune 55. The Americans have need of the telephone, but we do not sort of British people. We have plenty of messenger buyers. So we can go through a number of such quotes. And I think the, the common element, and this is, is really it's about an inexorable andous change we are facing here. So these things are changing. We have to react, we have to deal with it.

We can't go out and say, okay, this will will pass away. Products are changing. They are becoming connected. There's new competition. Their new ideas services will become important in any business. So it's not only a product business anymore. It's about having the right services around these products. And we see a number of industries that they start to earn more money with services than products. The business models change. Our organization has to change the same way our ecosystems change. There are different types of partners. So when we look at this, there's a lot of change.

There are a lot of different layers. So if you look at the ecosystem at the types of customers and a lot of other stuff, it means we also have to support this and they are more fundamental. So one of the fundamentals I brought up is it's more than just the internet of things.

So when, when you look at a lot of these transformational stuff, eBooks cetera probably is not basically an internet of things. Stuff, smart manufacturing is overlapping to some degree is IOT, but necessarily the same. The other thing I already quickly touch is digital transformation. Mandates organizational have changed. Another fundamental I want to look at more closely is, and this is sort of the core of our webinar. Everything everyone become connected. So I brought up this picture quite, quite frequently, which is our sort of our computing Troy.

So we have the cloud computing with new deployment models. We have sort of social computing, more use of populations, dealing with customers, leads for prospects. We have the mobile computing. These are three long running changes right now. And I think all of us are familiar, but what really happens now is this that we add sort of another layer of complexity. So we sort of have a situation where every thing and everyone become connected. So what we really really have here is we have organizations. We have people, we have things and we have devices.

So the people, they own devices, they use devices. They utilize things which act autonomous, where devices are used by humans. These by direct communicate directly the devices, things there might be a communication between the organizations and the things which provide information back. And first and the same with devices. And there are central services from service providers, etcetera. We have fact more complex, connected and converging world where sort of the boundaries we, we, we, we, we historically have, are increasingly diminishing. And this means we have also to deal differently.

We have to understand the relationships, but, but we also have to enable the communication between these various elements sort of services, the APIs and the apps and singlets and all the APIs in between. This is really what is one of the very fundamental changes we are facing. The children. Transformation is converging, connected, whatever you'd like to name it, world other fundamentals are we have to look at security and safety. It's not a difficult to me.

It's not something where we can go say, if you go for safety, but not security, we have to cover all of these aspects, which is particularly important. When we look at what could happen, if things are smart, manufacturing, attacked, we have to understand the security is a risk.

Yes, but it's also an opportunity. I think it will become a differentiator in competition, more and more done, right? It also allows us to do a lot of other things better. So if we do identity, right, we can also deal better with our customers because it's about better handling our customer identities and all the types things. And finally, around all this identity is a glue access control is what you need.

So if you want, want to really succeed in this changing environment, it's of high importance to understand that it's about identity, not only of the persons, but of the things of the devices, the relationships, and the way we need. We control access to information from all these various parties, the organizations, the people, the things, the app. So think about a car where you have your smartphone connected, which is really a connected vehicle. There are a lot of parties in there. That's the police, there's the manufacturer, that's the garage insurance company, leasing company.

There are a lot of different persons involved, which are the driver, the other people in the car, the people in the garage, whatever you look at. And there are a lot of different elements which share information. And you have to understand which information is allowed to be shared with whom who is allowed to access what.

So we need to understand identities, their relationship and the access to succeed in this transformation, which leads from my fundamental number eight for the digital information to my seven fundamentals for future identity and access management, which are, it's more about, more than humans. It's about the identity of things.

Devices, services, apps. It's about multiple identity providers. We will not manage all identities internally anymore, and trust us will vary. So there will be identities of externals. We have to, to integrate. We might trust some more our own ones, some of trusted partners and some less the ones of social network. For instance, there will be multiple attribute providers. So it will not be that we have a single directory anymore. It will be different. There's multiple identities. Many users will have different identities or personas on flexibly switch between them.

They might come in through that social network today, aside for tomorrow and another social network day after multiple a indicators, it will not be the single a indicators also will not be only username. Password will be far more. We will have to deal with different ones of these. We must understand relationships. I've already mentioned that and we must understand context identities and access risk varies in context. So if you use an insecure indicator or insecure device, insecure wifi network, whatever to access sensitive information, we might say no.

If we access it with a strong authentication, from a secure network for a secure device, the answer might be different. We need to understand context. We need to become better in doing these things. So future identity and access management will encompass all these identities, the employees, the business partners, the customers, the consumers, whatever, but also the services, the devices and things. This is one of the important imperatives and concepts and fundamentals of what is changing in our world of identity and access.

Another important element is that we will see a shift towards adaptive access. So still a lot of things which are happening are sort of a black, white access management. So someone knows the password and the username, and this is a lot to come in. If he doesn't know he's not allowed, but this is not sufficient anymore. I've talked about context before. And I think there are, there are a number of elements. So one is access intelligence. So what are the, the risks? So where are the high risk users? One is user behavior analytics.

For instance, other elements are, then I will come to this context. So if there are anomalies and you say, okay, this person always accessed from, let's say the UK. And right now it's accessing from China and doing some strange things from there, you might say, okay, probably this an anomaly, the risk is higher. I'm more careful regarding what I allowed, but what I allowed to do or not. So risk anomalies context, and then policies, which control. This are changing the way we are doing this entire stuff. So risk and context, information really controls the level of access.

We grant to someone adaptive access is one important thing. And the other thing, which is always important, which is quite in line with what I've said before, it'll be one identity and access management. So future identity management will not be, here's an employee identity management, and here's some Analyst it'll be managing employees, managing consumers, customers, etc. We'll have a far tight integration to CRM. It will encompass operation technology, MDM stuff, those things. So we need to understand at the end, it's about someone or something, accessing some information.

It's all the same question basically. And we are clearly more successful. If we understand that it's always the same problem we try to solve. We also have to understand that security has to be identity aware if you don't understand who directly through direct access or indirectly through using an app or a device or whatever is trying to access information is doing what we will struggle with doing good security security has to understand the identity who wants to access.

So obviously who wants to do something who wants to whatever trusts as a network, everything has to have the concept of identity there. So we have the humans, we have the devices, the things, the services, again, sort of the same story, the same type of pictures here, various types of identities, various ways to gain access, but identity and context. This is what we need to understand when we look at firewalls. So firewall, which doesn't understand the identity will struggle is doing, was making good decisions on security and point security.

So who's acting in which context, some things might allow. Some things might not be allowed. It's about understanding both identity context to take it in account in identity, access management, identity, access governance. We have to anyway, this is sort of our standard topic or standard business. We are looking at retail security intelligence will become a very interesting part over the next few years, which is around understanding anomalies on broad scale, across all the various levels of your security environment. So what is anomaly anomalist behavior of users?

What are anomalies in the net at the network level, cetera, et cetera, to put this together, to react on this, to understand where the real threats are happening. We have the application security, which also needs to take identity and context into account. We can't build our applications anymore, which don't understand the context, which aren't adaptive in the way they authorize. We have to rethink the way we do application security. And there are a lot of other areas we have to look at.

So when we look at the overarching topic of new requirements for identity and access a converting world, I think the first important thing to, to, to, to understand us, it's not only about humans accessing a service anymore. This is one element of it, but there are other things, there are more ways. And at the end, when we talk about information security, it's about how can we protect information? How can we ensure that no one accesses and changes or reads or whatever does he, he wants to do with information he shouldn't do. So this is really what this change is about.

So we need to understand this requirement to react on these changes. And this is where I want to hand over right now to pair, because pair in this second part right now, we'll talk about the insight into what technologies we can expect to be used, how these are used in a dynamic way and how identities will change the way, how we do business and how we interact with ours parents, your turn, you should share your screen, and then you can directly start. Thank you, Martin And good afternoon. And thanks everyone for joining in to hear about this number one priority.

I think in, in access management and how to cope with this challenges that we are facing. So I'm ger, I'm the CTO of nexus. And before we get into the, the topic, you just wanna share some facts for those who don't know about nexus. So we are a United security company. International based would have quarters in Sweden, but offices across Europe and, and other continents. Our uniqueness is around that. We provide security solutions, product and services for both physical and digital access. And in this convergence, we believe that this can create a much more secure, manageable solution.

Since you can learn from both of these worlds, the customer base is we run from a medium to large choice enterprises across public and public private and public organizations and governments. So it's a privately held company.

As I said, the head office is in Stockholm and then offices across Europe, us, India, and, and Morocco. We have currently two 50 employees, but a rapidly growing company. And overall we have 30, 34,000 customers and have round just 100 million managed type managed identities in various solutions. There was brief introduction to nexus. So Martin gave a good introduction, I think, around. So being them from the digital side, and we started looking at the, the, the challenge around entities and challenge around internet of things or internet of everything.

I think you can really just, you ask yourself the question. So why don't I just take what I have in the digital world, the digital technologies and apply them in the fiscal context, or is it that easy? And that was the sort of background when we created, we removed nexus from just being a digital company to embracing what the fiscal security market has to offer in terms of knowledge about constrained environments and, and, and really providing protection to, to, to physical objects. So that was the, the sort of the background to transforming the company to also embrace the fiscal side.

So when we started looking at this, then we, we saw that there are a number of constraints. You reusing Martin picture here from, from previous slides. This is typically how you would look on it, that you have devices that you can use to as internet of connected devices, but you can also use them to manage things.

And, and these of course, controlled by persons. And then they use APIs to, to, to access different kinds of services.

I, especially then, on, on, on the right hand side, you can see that you have a number of objects that will not have the full capability of the PC or, or, or a mobile phone. That's where it gets interesting to start looking at how, what are the sort of the, the, what are the, the capabilities in terms of communication? What are the capabilities of storing different kinds of credentials? What are the different kinds of, of the protocols that they can, can support? What are the sort of crypto that's even applicable to run on, on these kinds of devices and how do you manage them?

How do you lifecycle management do more exercise management? The thing that you might put out in, in, in a disconnected environment, and it might be something that just communicate some internet that it's totally local. You really need to think that through, and that's put end up in the end presentation to present how we go to market around that challenge. First of all, we can look at the, the constraints that we found.

And, and first of all, it's, it's around the usability, of course, that the, the, the, when you apply security on, on, in this new converge world, where you have other types of, of devices and things that, that people will use and, and things talking each other, you need to look into the usability. So we might not be applicable to run a, a a, of course, I, at one time passport token, or, or a sample based approach, or a PT based approach, or whatever you need to look into, what, how will this user use this type of device?

And how does that, what are the, what are the security solutions that you could put in place to just sort of embrace and support the, the use, how the scenario and usability, how that's used that one, that's one of the constraints that you will find this second one is around the technical. So these are where you look into the capabilities of, of thing. And there are battery issues here. You we'll find what are the communication protocols that can run on the device what's supported on, on, on the operating system?

What, what are the, what are the Ram capabilities? What are the storage capabilities and etcetera. So that that's sort of mean makes it, you know, makes you sort out what kind of protocols that you can and, and security mechanisms that you can put in place. So technical constraints, and then you'll of course find legal constraints.

And, and, and what we're in now, I think is in the beginning of this, how is that people don't care too much about the life cycle management of, of the devices and the data there sites on the devices, but this is something that of course will appear in a few years when, when then you need to sort of disabled or, or revoke devices and revoke data. How do you, how are you able to do that? What are the sort of standards around that, that you can do?

What are, how can you move access rights to another person when you might put your, you know, how do you sort of, when you sell something that you have at home, you wanna make sure that all, everything that's been collected about you on the device or on anything, how can you sort of replace that and erase that data, make sure that that's not going to be reused in the latest days. And again, constraints around that. So usability, technical and legal constraints will give you minimize the, the, the counter solutions that you can choose from. So we talked a little bit lifecycle, man.

So this is the, this is I think one of the sort of key areas that also that are, as in, it was in the data side, in the beginning, you, you forget about how the lifecycle management of credentials, the identities, the device itself, and, and, and most maybe important is around the data that recites on the, on the, on the thing. So you need to look into these areas and define now, how will I put in place?

How will I put in place a platform that will allow me to live cycle management of the device, the identity, the, the data, the credential and topics, because it's gonna be a bit late when you roll out a few million things that you have, that, that is communicating and, and supporting your business maybe, and, and then you need to give back. So there are some good examples of core manufacturers that have issued connected things out, and then have to take in all the course to do service on them.

Instead of being able to do lifecycle management on online in case there is a weakness, for instance, in, in the security or, or another, you need to think about this now before, think through how you're gonna do life cycle manage, do lifecycle management, help these data down to the end device. So what are the, these sort of, when we did this, what, what did we find?

So, first of all, we have been pointed out, we have a trend that you move to put it, the, the sort of the identity of the objectives can be person, but could also be thing in the middle. And we think that you need to equip this identity with different kind of, of capabilities in terms of security and communications and another type. So if the object talks to, to transaction and needs to support some case, if it support, if it's talking to an API, you need some kind of communication, and this will vary. So that gives a broader scope of what you need support.

So we put this in a table and then sort it out five different columns here. So we have, first of all, sort of what are the kind of formats that you can kind of formats of a credential that you can can use on a specific thing. So that could be stored in a hardware. It can be a software base. It can be to P it could be even a public E D. It could be passport. And in the signatures, there's a lot of different kinds of formats of, of credentials.

These credentials can then be carried on different kinds of devices or formats, so we can be on the device itself, or it can be something that you equip the use. Of course, then this credential needs to be able to communicate. And this is where it gets into sort of the complex part where you need one credential to maybe do a near proximity communication and another credential to do a network based the IP and from the same device or, or connected thing. And this was varied then, depending on the use case that you're trying to solve.

And then there's a number of different standards of protocols that you can, can that you need to put in place in order to, for this thing, to be able to, to act in various different use cases so that this will include standards from the digital world, but also standards from, from the physical world, of course. And then there's a number of different algorithms.

And this is when you come to algorithms and the, around this securities where you have the sort of constraints around what are sort of cryptographic capabilities on the, the connected device, what are sort of, and how you store it, how can can you run? And the processors might, might put constraints into it.

So, but what we think then is that given that the, the in an enterprise or an organization, you need to be able to support this broadness that you can see in the table in your life cycle management of the identities, the devices, and, and the data out these, the table that you saw. I just wanna mention for what we see are key standards from the, from the digital well or the, for, for security areas.

So, first is the, the is the P nexus, which is nexus core background. We have seen them in, in the last two years and uptake where P will play a very, very important role in securing communication and the data rest for internet of things, P is score ideal solution when it comes to providing identities and, and encrypting communication, encrypting data, signing data, etcetera, given its scalability and its, and its ability to work offline and online and, and, and the capital, the core security functions that you have in there.

So we see a lot of deployments around that, but as in the table, it's not gonna be just one solution. So you, this, the PKI solution is of course ideal for some of the use cases. Then we see O of two as a key standard to connect a physical person with a number of objects and device. So of two will together with P even very important to get entities out. And so we seeing this in a combination then with these two areas, third, we think that then it's about providing a scalable solution around access rights and access control, which Martin I pointed out earlier.

And given that we put identity Midland and make the identity controlled relationships with whatever we're connected to, and then control over data. There needs to be standardized method around access control and access control management and, and user managed access then, or is, is gonna be the key core protocol. The key protocol to provide a manageable access control solution every time.

And then fourthly it's around S called skim scheme is gonna be vitally important when it comes to provisioning and, and, and the management, the life cycle management of data of identities of, and real devices. So these are the four key standards from the digital world that you need to look into and follow and make sure that your infrastructure support in an easy way and make it possible to deploy to the connected devices. So what we did then we did with the table and we found, you know, what are the things that we need support?

What are the technologies that, that would be important now and going forward, how do you make this available in easy way? That's why we created, we call the identity platform, which is, it's an integrated solution giving you both identity management and certificate in key management and access notification management in one. And this is a, you can apply this down on, on the fiscal world, on the digital world, and also this converge world where we find the identity of things S of three distinct sub platforms.

So we have the identity management platform, which is linked to what we call the data points. And the data points is where all the data about an object, which you can see on top at Martin point before, there's a number of different types of objects that you need support from devices, people in terms of APIs, transactions, big data, and several others. These identities of these are actually representing in what we call data points, which can be one, it could be ad, but it can also be hundred different data sources that form the identity data of, of object.

The management platform is connected to that and can represent up and create virtual objects can drive that flow policy process and then give out various different kinds of tokens in, in their, and credential and forms out to the different objects. And then you can turn these flow around and use the, the, the, the credential into the data and the services that you need to provide. So that's how you, the, the dynamic and the platform. So that gives you support for the table that is store before and the table is what you need to look into to enable in your, in your infrastructure.

So that was all for me. Okay.

Thank you, pair. So we are going through the two presentations. I will make me the presenter again, Q and a. So it's time for the attendees to enter the questions so that we can pick up these questions. So the one question I, I already have here is you mentioned the Uma protocol, so use managed access, which is a quite new, and not, not that we widely known protocol as of now.

So maybe you can spend some, some words on what Yuma is about, and particularly because this protocol has been a little bit more in the consumer-centric world position at the beginning, why it's also relevant for the enterprise. Yes.

I think, I think it's relevant to the enterprise because you are, I think it's gonna be, you know, we had the trend of bring new device and, and, and people, and then are used to being, going from an organization centric model of, and access management as a whole. So, so I think part of that trend will also go into, of course, the access control, which is part of why I am, and it's about giving user control over who's syncing my data and who should be, have that sort of control over that. Of course there's gonna be, have to be.

And you can also see driven from the, the, the, I mean, looking at Europe around the, the data protection laws and the, the, I mean, there's a people want to, there's a, there's a law now that says, you know, you need, companies need to prove that they have erased on the date about an employee when they leave. I mean, it's natural that you could use you much to actually prove that, you know, you, these are the access rights that you, you have allowed. These are all now reviewed. Okay.

Another question I have here is what risk parameters do you think companies see as most important to be notified about? So, so, so when you look at the various types of authentication, cetera, and the, the contact stories of what are from your perspective, the most important parameters, I think Risk of context.

I mean, We have had now, I mean, the, the, the, if you see the, the change from what you have around firewalls, as you pointed out, I mean, you added the identity awareness and, and app networks and, and, and the, the blurring line, what puts an enterprise network puts the internet. I mean, that's, that's been removed.

And, and then that was about persons. Now, there will be things that comes into your network wants, have access to data once where it might be over time. So what they, what they need to look into is like, what are the other types of objects? What are the risks around object? Cetera are starting communicate, where do they come from? What's on them? What are they gonna do? How do life cycle management do life cycle management of these connected devices that have up to our data about enterprise when they leave?

I mean, I think there for also from my perspective, there are a number of factors I see as important. Clearly the location is one type of devices.

One, the, the health of the device is another one. Then there's this particular also the change in, in behavior, which is extremely important, the strengths of authentication. So how this proof is done. Cetera.

So there, there, there, there have variety of factors, but it also depends a little bit on the, on the, the use case. So clearly it's not about having the same insight for every use case. It depends on what you, what are you looking at?

And, and at some point you might also say, I need some more proof during an interaction because I start a transaction. It's about the money, et cetera. Yeah.

But I, I think, I mean, the, the, the, the challenge here is if you, if that's a fully fledged device that has full capabilities, it has an operating system that is known and you have, you know, antivirus, and you can have a lot of, you know, normal protection that you use today. But I think what, what organizations will face is that there will be connective things that they have zero possibility to add anything onto accept an identity.

That's the only thing that we will be able to do, because it will be maybe in the Ram of the, I mean, mine might be sort of the, it might be something that is I in the, in the circuit when it counts and who knows what that's gonna do. So what you need to do is make sure that it has an identity. So at least they can track it and trace it and run that through governance platform or something to make sure that, okay, now something actually deviated from the standard. So we need to check that, what is that actually thing doing now to know?

So that's gonna be a challenge to look into, so yeah, but the are solutions, but they need it that's for sure. So you mentioned another point, which is around, you said, PKIs are, are, are, are an important element. So for when we go back back, sometime it looked a little, like PKIs were more or less they, which never were, but said they were really not, is not a strategic topic, nothing really strategic and, and relevant than the center of attention. This seems to change. On the other hand, we, we, we have seen a number of incidents related to certificates.

If you look at GQ and stolen, private keys and certificates were used. So at tax, if you look at some issues, the one other certificate authority had.

So, so how to protect against, at one was your slides. There was written quite, quite, quite small, the topic of certificate and key management platform. Yeah. So we provide, that's one of the sub platforms of the, of the dynamic, anti the platform.

And, and I, I think, I think we saw this update. I mean, look, just mention some of the projects and then the customers that are using people from IOT perspective, we have all the, you know, several of the big telcos that run the, the, the nexus platform or, or the 4g networks where everything has the certificate in order to, to be able to communicate between, I mean, not the phones itself, but the rest of the network is secure by that. We have smart metering technologies that we really use P we have a certificate.

And then, and the key pair on the, on the electric meter in order to provide, to make sure that it's, it's the right meter, the reports, and it's my right meter, that sort have a painful electricity and cetera. So there's a lot of use cases where see the P P coming now.

And, and in terms of securing, I think, I think a lot of these PPIs are not public PPIs. Of course, they are dedicated to this specific topic. And that's one of the ways to sort of overcome an issue that on the other end, that gives the downside of being able to be participating in, in a, in a trust chain or in a broader respect.

But, but it also, you know, I think it also is important to have technology in place, which obviously managing the keys and certificates. Yeah. Definitely Be able to change cetera because otherwise I think we, we, we have a two high risk.

So, so you would say this is a mandatory element of such platform, The life cycle management and yeah. And, and ability also to switch.

I mean, is there weaknesses in this algorithm we need to fix that has the, I mean, and you can also roll the keys. I mean, and it's not time. So you don't use the keys 4, 5, 6 years.

I mean, there's, you might put a related out, do you issue a certificate and the keys for lifetime of the device that you proceed, or you do it for the, for certain shorter time, and then you have a good life cycle management to roll, maybe provided strong key, mandatory the life cycle management of the credential in identity and the data and the device itself. That's the mandatory element of place.

Okay, perfect. So if there are no further questions I think we are done for today, I think it's very obvious it's time that we really start to think about how to deal with the changing complexity for identities, access cetera in the converting world. So thank you for attending this scooping, a call webinar.

Thank you, pair for your presentation and the insight you provided. Yeah. And talk to you soon again in one of the upcoming call webinars in demand. Thank you. Bye. Very much. Bye.

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How to Cope with Challenging Identities in a Converged World