So we have Mark Greer, global operations Director for Ragman A and Architects. Mark.
Yeah, we have Drummond Reed German, we have Eric Scout. And you've just heard we have Mario Wallace, Joe, Gabriel Mar, Gabriel Marque, I, I think you're French. Yeah. Speaking.
So, and then we have car Welcome to the stage and well, the title of this SP panel would be Real world examples of How Smart Wallets will transform, how we Navigate the digital world. So the first trigger when hearing this is smart wallets. So I don't think, I'm not sure if that's the right description.
So there's actually some slides, supposedly there's some slides that are supposed to be on the screen. And then we have the questions here.
Alright, well I haven't seen any, so happens there's a problem. So, well, let's then start to get that each of you declare their involvement with wallets.
So, so, okay, let me start, I'll start. So I don't have slides, so I'm having to, you know, go ad lib it. But anyway, I wanted to start to be the, a little bit of a preamble before we start the discussion. And I'm thinking of, I'm, I'm the, I'm most Bush to this main course and it's gonna be an amazing main course. So to stay with us. So there was four opinions, although they're facts in my head that I wanted to share with the audience before we start the conversation. And some of these are gonna be obvious and some of them may not be so obvious.
So the first thing I want to state as I believe a fact is the world is becoming more digital and the internet is fundamentally flawed. And what, by this I mean as the world be, as everything is becoming more digital, we're having to exchange more and more information as we interact with both digital services and physical services.
And we're seeing that the boundaries between physical and digital is blurring.
So as more and more data has been exchanged, we obviously need systems that ensure that our privacy is protected, that we only share the data we need, and that the data can flow freely when we want it to flow. And this is where the internet is fundamentally flawed at the moment because as we all know, we're missing this trust layer. So this is the first thing that we're fundamentally looking to solve. And that my panelists here with me are going to share with you how they're trying to solve these problems. The second fact that I wanted to state is that the person has to be at the center.
There is no other way. When I talk to our clients about decentralization as a concept, a lot of the focus is on privacy, preserving and empowering individuals.
And absolutely that goes without saying.
But there's also a really simple mathematical equation, which is as we have to exchange more and more data with more and more data endpoints, whether it's proving we are who we are when we're getting on a plane to, you know, paying for something out with a retailer, to getting a visa, to verifying your passport, to getting your boarding path, to, as we do more and more of these things, the number of organizations that we are potentially interacting with and we're potentially ex exchanging some data with is becoming very large.
And if we are not at the center, if we are not the ones controlling that data exchange, we are going to have a spaghetti of potentially highly personal data flying around the place without our involvement, which I believe is completely impractical. Also, aside from the fact that it's unacceptable for most privacy, privacy thinking people.
The third point I wanted to to point out is this is the exact reason why a decentralized world, which we all live in today, we all work around as individuals.
You know, it's a decentralized world needs decentralized technology. So we need to start to have more and more of the information about ourselves that we may need for these interactions in our hands, in our body as we move around our world. And the other thing I would just call out here is the benefits for this type of agency is not just about individuals. This agency also is about organizations. I'm just gonna give you a very, very simple example. So we talk to development banks around the world and we look at how do we increase GDP for our countries?
How do we make companies within our countries more productive? And we also here, during Covid, we also realized how brittle our supply chains were.
The challenges today is if I am an amazing coffee, I'm a big coffee fan. So if I'm amazing coffee roasting company in, in Italy and I'm a small company, but I have an amazing product and I wanna get into an international or global supply chain, I might wanna get into a restaurant chain.
In the US the the the effort of in, of getting into a supply chain is fundamentally very often too high for me to bear as a small company and is too high for the supply chain to bear from a legal, a regulatory, a a risk standpoint. So we've been talking to development banks and governments about, just imagine if all of our companies were credentialized, everything about them that they needed to transact in business was credentialized. So they can now compete with anybody else in a global supply chain.
So I think when we think about credentialed identity, we think about benefits for everybody, organizations and individuals.
And the final thing is that value has to be realized by all participants. So value has to be realized by the data subject, but the individual or the organization, it has to be realized by the data issuer. It has to also be realized by the data consumer or the relying party and fundamentally the technology provider. So as we think about solving this problem, we have to think of everybody that's involved. And with that said, I'm now gonna come back to my panel.
I'm gonna start asking some questions and unfortunately my eyesight isn't the best, so I'm gonna have to put my glasses on. Okay. So to start off, would each of you introduce yourselves by explaining what problem within the big space I've just described are you specifically working on and why you are passionate about it? And I'm gonna start with you here. Shall beside me.
Okay. Hi. Hi n So I'm Jose from NTT Digital. We're a relatively new company. NT digital is with CM of the NTT group, which is one of the largest like tech con merit in Japan. Based in Japan.
We have like country largest telecom and we're second largest data center provider as our group, group company. So talking about the trust, actually I think the trust is one of the topic today. We believe that as Mary shared, we're living in the digital world as digital really evolving, like accelerating. I think the importance of the data continues to grow, but yet I think a lot of compromise made, you know, for a lot of the, you know, businesses and individuals always, the transparency, the the, the reliability and the quality and the controlability of the data is not there.
We as a infrastructure provider, history speaking, we have quite long history supporting, having, building upon the trust, managing the physical infrastructure like technical communications and, and data center.
Now we aim at, you know, also provide this additional, you know, trust layer at the data level. So our vision for this company is, we call it a free to trust. So we think we try to, how should I say, free the business and individuals from the burden of the distrust and also give them a choice to decide, okay, whom to trust and what to trust. So that's what we're doing.
And as a product, actually we, a few months ago we launched our digital wallet. It's B2C audit, but from, from this summer to fall this year, we're gonna run some the product, we call it embedded wallet, which is the company can embed it into their own services so that company can manage tokenized identity, money and the objects within their existing, existing services. So that's what I would do. Sorry
Eric.
So I've just spoken about the content authenticity, but I think really when I think about the marketplace of public ideas, I, I hear from people in government and business in sports and entertainment, science, arts, and they're all sort of frustrated that they're losing connection with their audiences because the audiences don't know whether to trust the content that they're seeing from these sources is real. And so for me, this is about bringing audiences and content producers back into genuine contact with each other.
Mond Hi Drummond Reed from director of Trust services at Jen Digital.
Jen is one of the world's largest consumer cybersecurity companies touch about 500 million users around the world. They're used to using cybersecurity products today like antivirus or identity theft, theft protection services to guard against the wor you know, the threats that we have out there today. But as you're hearing at this conference, the threats that are coming, especially AI powered threats, are gonna require a whole new generation of tools.
And we see the digital wallet and digital credentials for proving your auth, not just your authenticity as an individual, but the things you're authorized to do. You know, your, your digital reputation in many different contexts as the next major tool for consumer usage. So we are focused on producing that at, at the same level that you're used to using, you know, in, in your smartphone today. But based on free and open standards that mean we really can't have portability.
Mark?
Yeah, good day. My name is Mark.
Yeah, I'm with a law firm called Ragman. We joke, we are probably the largest law firm that nobody's ever heard about. We only play in the immigration space. And from our perspective governments really care about a handful of things. Who you are, how long you coming for, what is the risk and when are you leaving, right? And what are you gonna be doing? That's really what they're after.
And so where we see playing in the space is really is to make the goal of the employer and the employee much easier and more seamless as they touch all these various touch points along the way, going from host country to a home country, from from a home country to host country from an employment perspective. And we see the wallet, you know, the verifiable credentials being a large part of the solution. We are at the moment running a number of POCs in this.
And as I said, at at the end of the day, the goal is really to make the, the movement in the mobility space much easier and more compliant both from a government, from an employee and an employer perspective. So that's really what where our focus is Gabriel.
So Gabriel Marque working for ata, the International Air Transport Association. So looking at business processes around the airline operations and just to give you an idea of the ecosystem, we, we look after or we try to help operate better. It's around 500 airline in the world.
200,000 travel agencies and 4 billion travelers per year. So it's actually quite a decentralized ecosystem and a quite large scale one. So I think that's why decentralized entity is actually a perfect match. And because we look at all the business processes around the entire business, we start to see quite when we dice them up, quite a lot of use cases that can leverage digital id. So there are quite a few around the passenger side of the business around enabling travelers to use new tools in the shopping space.
So that's pretty much in the exploration phase now, using digital identity tool to verify that you're good to travel and maybe use biometric processing so that in the pilot phase.
And then when we look at the B2B use cases, actually it's, the question is how do you onboard faster your business partners? And once you've onboarded them, how can you keep verifying that they're indeed the one generating transactions? And that's where the organizational digital ID come into play.
There is also a cargo side of the business and when we look across the board there is aviation security with exchange of air operating certificate produced by civil aviation or services. So actually we see that even government actors start to be actively involved in the activities there. And so for me, what's fascinating around digital ID is that once you start to spin up solution for one use case is then you just one small step away from unlocking the next one. And it's quite crazy when you think about it.
When we, so we look at, okay, how do we reduce the risk of fraud and secure the transaction between travel agencies and airlines? So we say, okay, great travel agencies gonna get a digital id, but then it means that travel agencies can issue verifiable proof of order that can be then be used to obtain a visa that can then be used to check in and it all comes together. So when you start from one angle, then you see that you eventually close the loop to all the, to all the use cases. So that's really what I find wonderful about it.
Yeah, and actually that, that we are gonna talk, we have one of the questions later talking about ecosystems, but I think this is, that's a really good point. I mean this, I always joke that this is the gift that keeps on giving because as soon as you solve one problem, you find 15 other problems that you can solve with the same technology. So this is good.
So, okay, let's do the next question. So the next question, okay, so we hear about the, okay, first one. So every session at this conference, many sessions are filled with stories of the threats of ai, data breaches, identity fraud and ransomware that are eroding online trust. So what specifically are you and your company doing to start to build that trust and help people feel safe as they navigate their digital worlds? And I'm gonna start with you, Eric.
Okay.
Again, what we're trying to do is to provide signals to give people an understanding of how they got the content that they are receiving and who produced it. And that's, that's the, the core of the, the cog identity assertion that I talked about is the who and the rest of it is the how. So you should be able to view content and like the nutrition facts on, you know, the food that you eat, at least in the US have some idea of what's in it, how it will affect you, and whether you should trust it or not.
And again, all of those are individual decisions. You might look, I might look at a nutrition fact and decide to eat something and Marie might look at the same and decide not to. But it really is about allowing you to make informed decisions about what you're, you're consuming when you're on the internet.
Perfect. Thank you.
Hoel, if you can,
Yeah, so talking about the trust, I think as a safe, keep the safe safety of the users. Actually we do a couple of things. So our wallets actually starting from the hundred, the tokens on the blockchain started from blockchain initially, but we're not confined to blockchains forever. So we started from blockchain because there's a couple reasons including the maturity of the, you know, the, the market and the technology. But so first of all, the, the wallets, you know, who handling the, the, the tokens on the blockchain has a lot of problems.
You may know that it sacrificed the user's, the user experience security to prioritize decentralization and like the self sovereignty. So, which mean that user need to manage everything by themselves, need to, to verify, identify the malicious transaction by themselves and the handle by themself. And which is quite challenging for a lot of the users.
We add a secure, secure guard rails adding the new la additional layer of the, the policy layer on the blockchain to keep the user safe like firewalls, spam filters and the key recoveries, which is quite common, you know, for the centralized application but not the, the common in the decentral world. So that's the first thing we do. But as the next step we try to connect the, the tokens to the identity. As you may know that we have the group company called Doomo. So it have a hundred million users in Japan.
So, which means it's a hundred million IDs, most of them are KYC, which try to make this ID identity talk to the tokenized money in the object as the next step and user can like handle and all those, you know, to maintain the controllability and the, at the same time, I think a couple of the new experience can be realized by linking the third party data and the pho party data.
That's the second things we do. But we're not limited to the or own users. So as I mentioned, we launching the embedded wallet and support the enterprise.
So we are also planning to connect to their IDs identities with those token tokenized assets. So the user can have this freedom to, to navigate across different companies. Made some announcements like a company like, which is one of the largest browser based mobile like marketplace. And another is sanrio, which is one of the biggest IP holder. I think everybody knows H Kitty, right? So we work with them, try to, you know, make, make what I described happen.
Third one, sorry, make it short, but as r and d we also focus on the, the things called secret computing. So the concepts like this, company A, company B, hold the data in the each, you know, their own database. But today if you, they want to use this, it's very challenging, right? Because a couple of the reason, so with this secure, secure computing, we can encrypt all those data and without decrypting that do some calculation and analytics. So without, you know, sacrifice any, you know, the privacy of the user.
But at the same time, I think it's not all about our, not only about protecting user when you're protecting user, but also give the benefit back to user. It's quite important. So that's what we're doing.
Cool. Thank you Asha. So Drummond,
So at on the steering, the steering member of trust for IP, where we right from the outset broke trust into the, the two components of the technical layer and the human layer and obviously the technical layer. What we need there is the interoperable protocols that, that the key technical innovation that's driving that forward.
I spent seven years of my life on decentralized identifiers. That's how we really democratize that cryptography. And we just needed to work interoperably. And I think, I think we've got a pretty good handle on that part. So the hard part's gonna be the human layer of trust and it's not because that's a hard thing for us to do.
I mean, if I asked all of you, how hard is it for you to, to manage this tool that you've got for your identity, right? I mean it's right. But I love to tell this story and I'm, I'm, you know, my wife, my wife always laughs this digital wallet on this device, my wife had to teach me how to use, I'm kidding.
I mean, I'm not kidding. This double click thing.
We, our last trip to Europe, she started going around and I'm going, how are you, how are you doing that on all this? Right?
We, we don't, we didn't at that time do that in the US She says, don't you know how to open your wallet on your phone without even, you know, and I'm like, no, it's double click. Oh God.
So yeah, I mean it's something that simple. So, but we're now, we're gonna get into highly contextual situations of, well what are the exact credentials needed if I'm, you know, I want to cross the border, that's one thing I just want to, you know, get a personalized subscription to a newsletter.
I mean, so we need to make that, that that's gonna be the hard part and and simplifying that user experience and making it part of our everyday lives. That's a key thing we're gonna be focused on for the consumer wallet.
Yeah, the, the hard part is isn't the technology, there's always a lovely quote from, I'm a physicist and Richard Fineman, one of the greatest physicists, one of the greatest teachers. And he always said, in my next life, I'm gonna come back and do something really difficult, like be a project manager. So the people are the hard part. So I totally agree.
So Mark, if you can quick give us that.
Yeah, sure. So based upon what we do, I mean we hold massive amounts of PII, so data security, data privacy is sort of part of our DNA. So we have major teams within the firm, under, under the chairman making sure that, you know, we, we do anything that's everything and anything that's possible to protect, to protect all of our PII. So we're constantly looking at other ways of making sure that we get secure transfer of data, whatever that may be. Obviously the, the verifiable credential spaces.
And, and as you know, I mean we're investing heavily in that, right? You know, if we have a look at any type of application that we process, the amount of documents that go into supporting of that application, the data points that we need from that and, and things like the verifiable credentials are gonna go a long way in terms of, of trusting the data that we get and also making it easier both from an employee and an employee perspective, but as well as from our own team's perspective in terms of, of processing that, of, of processing that data.
And at, at, at the end of the day, as I said earlier, the goal is to make the, the actual, the movement of that employer from employee from point A to point B as seamless and as smooth as possible, right? And you know, we see, you know, with the, you know, with the, you know, with this, the selective disclosure, right? And all the GDPR, our ability to only extract that information which we need for the processing of the cases is paramount.
And, you know, our data privacy guys are, are all over us if we ask for, you know, your favorite football team or your favorite color 'cause there's no need to ask for that. So as I said, it's a very big part of the firm. We are investing very heavily in it and you know, we, we, we just one of those where as I said, you know, somebody once joked that we should turn our systems into a dating site because we know so much about so many different people where they are, where they've lived, et cetera.
But all jokes aside is it is one of the most fundamental components of our firm is protecting the PII. So anything that we can do to protect that and to, and securely transmit that data is something which we're gonna invest in and explore.
So when we, so I'm gonna run into the next question. So when we opened together the panel, it was really first, you know, Gabrielle and Mark, we specifically wanted to bring those in because the rest of us are techies. And because the reason is, is technology is only there to make our lives easier.
When we talk about a digital world, we mean making life easier for all of us. And pretty much all of us are at some point in our life, are a traveler or we a worker, which is the use cases that the guys are, are living and breathing every day. So my next question is specifically to Gabrielle and Mark, we hear about the promise that digital wallets will bring that will bring us these new and improved user experiences that are safer and more streamlined. So how is this materializing in your specific sector? And I'll start Gabrielle with you.
Yeah, so and maybe starting with the basics before we arrive to the clever stuff. So I'm sure most of you flew over here, so you had to type in your passport details somewhere or your ID card detail. And actually all of this is because government ask airline to collect passport de or ID detail of everybody and send it to send it through.
So first, I mean like in the age of peer to peer end, end encrypted communications, that sounds a bit like madness, that you've got someone that needs to broker the PIA of 4 billion people per year or a group of organizations. So eventually I hope just to get the basic right, that someday government will accept directly information to provided to them by the travelers.
But before we get there, still within the current requirement for the airline to collect this data, there is already value if you can, well, don't have to look for your passport and type it in and do typo and then have it to have it corrected at checking time at the airport.
So just having a automatically populated data, verifiable data is already a massive step forward because if airline transport someone they shouldn't transport, then you get denied entry at the border and they've got to fly you back.
So yeah, already a good step. And then if we start to be creative from there, and that's way we can look maybe a bit more at the shopping side of, of things, if you have a digital ID for border processes and all this, then you can start using it elsewhere. So the first thing is, well if you have, if you are employee of a given company or have specialties with an airline because of your age or because of certain legal requirements, then today these don't get sold in any channel because they need to be able to verify that you are who you say you are, that you're entitled for that discount.
And actually with verifiable credentials, then I can prove that what I'm entitled to through any channel. So there is already a promise of meeting, making the shopping experience better for travelers and for airline to distribute their content more widely then in the payment space. So there is a, let's say a use case around travel. If your flight get canceled, it's too delayed, then you've got refund or compensations. And then in some of these use cases, the question is, well we want to refund you, we need to refund you. Please send us the detail for us to refund you.
You, I mean it would be much simpler if at the time of payment you can share your preferred refund option. So just one click authorization of payment and preferred refund option. And then if we get a bit more forward looking, then we've got instant proof of lifetime customer value. If I'm leisure traveler, I share all my travel story, I share my proof of entitlement that shows that in all the context I'm also a business traveler and then the airline can return me a better targeted offer.
And when we, when we get into the smart side of things, the question is, okay, I've got an agent that want to, that I say, Hey, please book me a flight to go to London next week. But then as an airline, how do I know it's a human and it's a given person behind that transaction and not just a bot web scraping for faires and to know all the price points. So actually when we get even further, we see that there is a need to integrate agents and the way to prove our, our identity to be able to truly achieve the smart agent part of the equation.
So yeah, so just a few thoughts before we get to the end use case. I think we've got plenty of baby steps that we can take on the way, but we, we promising Thank
You and Mark, please.
Yeah, so from our perspective, we sort of see the, the adoption of the digital wallet as the the beginning of the decentralized data model, right? And, and we're seeing governments are actually looking for solutions, right?
And I, and I'll build on what Gabriel said here in in a moment, but I was recently at a conference where the big topic was the fraud around the A one certificates, right? And from one particular member state moving third country nationals to another, the big issue was the acceptance of that home country A one certificate because of the fraud, right? So they're crying out for solutions in terms of how do we solve this?
How, and and the right answer around that is a verified credential around the A one certificate, let the government issue it, whoever issues it, let it go into your digital wallet or your smart wallet and let that be presented once requested and that, and that'll solve, some of that seems very simple, but just working with governments to get those adopted.
Another example, and I'll get to something where we, where we sort of working together there out, but if we look at the posted worker notification, which we wrote, we've got a proof of concept running on that right now.
When that director first came out, the this fines for non-compliance would be leveled at the employing or the sending entity, right? In other words, person A going from country A to country B, if I was non-compliant in country B, the way it was supposed to work is that the fines would be leveled against my employer in my home country. Now what you've got is about 10 states have now recognized the need for joint liability, right?
In other words, the inspectors are saying, I'm no longer gonna go after your employer, I'm actually gonna go after your client in the host country or your office in the host country to level the fine for non-compliance, right?
So it's this need to have an ability not only to issue the verifiable credential for, for example a posted worker, but the ability to verify that in the host location. And these are real, these are real challenges. This conference that I was at, the primary pain points for them were a one certificates and posted worker notification.
I think another part just to mention and just to dovetail, and I think this is where it's important to Gabriel's point in terms of understanding the end-to-end spectrum or the end-to-end experience of the traveler, right? And those of you who've checked in, and just correct me if I'm wrong, but those of you who've checked in at the airport and they, you check on the screen it says, do you have a visa? That's the thematic API which is, which is owned by iata, right?
And what you'll find, and this is, this is a, this is a real example in in a marine and offshore environment in Brazil we had a, you know, there's a Philippine national subsea welder and according to nothing wrong with the, with the thematic data, but in order to get that individual to Brazil, they were allowed to enter correctly so on using the Siemens documentation, right?
However, the vessel was a Brazilian flag vessel. So the AI a component got them all the way to Brazil, but they can't board the vessel because it's a Brazilian flag vessel and they actually need a work authorization.
So the dovetailing of our two firms, right, in terms of providing that seamless end-to-end service is, is so critical. I mean, not such a bad thing having to spend two weeks in Rio, but that wasn't the purpose of actually going to Brazil in the first place. So it's really about making sure that we can join a lot of these various proofs of concepts, a lot of these initiatives, a lot of these pilots to make sure that the movement of indi individuals from point A to point B is seamlessly achieved.
And, and the verifiable credentials are such a huge part of making, of making that all happen.
And that's actually a perfect dovetail actually to the ecosystem question because centralization works when you know the issuers also the verifier. But when you want to start use your identity or use your passport or use your proof of education for multiple different use cases across multiple different touch points, it becomes a different story.
So my next question is, so when I talk with clients, they do get really excited about the potential of the wallet, but they have all kinds of questions about adoption. My experience so far has been that adoption is driven ecosystem by ecosystem and connecting of ecosystems. So acceptance across ecosystems. So what in your, so what is your experience and what are you doing to drive adoption? And I'm gonna start with Drummond.
I'm glad you used the, the term acceptance Marie, if anyone who saw Andy Tobin's great, you know, the wallet Olympics that EI does is and he suggested what, why aren't we working on a global acceptance network for verifiable credentials? It's interesting just listening to this panel, I'm thinking about how many of these credentials that I use every day right now actually fit that first description of I only use that credential with the issuer, right? I've just been sitting here looking at it, this thinking, eh, almost never, right?
All these credentials designed to be used in other places, right? The credit cards especially, I use 'em all over the world, but how often do I use my credit card in my bank, right? I don't. So we have to solve that same problem now for verifiable credentials and it is going to have to be an ecosystem of ecosystems. And so I'm actually gonna answer this question by tossing anyone in the audience in the, in the conference here who wants to talk about how we're gonna solve that problem, please seek me out.
Or you know, a handful of us here that are, are on this panel that are think we need to solve that problem together by connecting the ecosystems.
Thank you Drummond.
So Eric,
For us, I think a lot of that is around education, right? When I talk to people outside of this community, even technical people who aren't identity experts, you talk about verifiable credentials, you talk about wallets and you get blank stares. And so I think a significant part of it is going to be starting to show people what these really look like, how you get them and are you ready to use them? Much like Drummond's comment about using the the payment wallet on his phone. So I think we're still at that stage where education needs to be a critical part of it.
The other piece for us, and this is now turning to the technical people in this room, is that interoperability is a big challenge for us. You know, every time that we, we constrain the choices that relying parties have to make for their convenience, we make it much more difficult for the issuers to sort of fit that narrow mold that we're we're choosing. And I think there, there's a lot of work to be done to figure out how do we make a common choice that a wide variety of issuers and a wide variety of relying parties can implement without overwhelming either side.
And so finally I think, sorry one second Gabrielle.
Yeah. So well in term of interoperability and making things work, actually I've been digging the history book because planes have been flying for quite some time before the internet.
So, and actually I realized that one of the key standards that was developed under the IATA passenger service conference governance was internal reservation messages. And if you pull it in the context of today, basically it's an acceptance net network of reservation request by travel agencies to airlines. So all that to say that around the air travel ecosystem, airline already quite well familiar about setting up standards under a governance framework and the need to engage government entities to achieve operational setups that are also well practical and compliant with the regulation.
So in practice what does it mean is that members airline come together, agree on the value proposition of addressing a certain challenge upfront and from their go and dig business requirement, target business process and from there develop the necessary data model.
We've put it in term of here, verifiable financial schema and interability profile for things to work at scale in the industry.
So, and indeed that that works well and for us that are working like deep down in the technology we, we've been working on it for four years and everything seems obvious but we realize that when we start to articulate the value proposition beyond the people that are actually working on it, it just flies over the head. So another tool that we use are end-to-end proof of concept to showcase future use case by case. And also one key point as we were discussing for things to work you need to have use case being able to piggyback on it shows.
So one point we adamant on is that wallet solution ecosystem needs to be open. We need to have people to be able to issue across the ecosystem to verify across the ecosystem.
Otherwise, I think that was one of the points yesterday, wallet is a new silo and that's no good. So really much in term of achieving what we want, that's,
Yeah, and one thing I would just call out, so, so I think the, the, I dunno if you're familiar, if you're not familiar with the iata POCs that they run, you should, 'cause they're very interesting.
But, but in some of the early ones it was a lot of border, but the, the recent ones I've been I think are really exciting because they really look at the whole end-to-end travel experience. What I think is what it's all about is everything.
So I, I think people should really take a look. It's interesting because everything from, from booking your travel to getting to the airport to going through the airport to looking at the retail to hotels. So it's a really nice way of looking at the whole experience the same as Mark talked about, it's the whole worker experience end to end or the traveler experience. So I think that's a really nice, a nice way of looking at it. So just the final wrap up, this is the question for everybody. So we only have five minutes left.
So to wrap up, if you could all share just one thing that you'd like the audience to go away with and we'll start here with Hoshan. Okay.
Maybe since, you know, he didn't ask me to talk about adoption, maybe I just Absolutely, I think that definitely we're also part of the, the GaN the global acceptance network because it also should be aware of the power of the ecosystem, network of network. And also we started some activities, first of all in Japan we called Web3 jump. So it's like now it's 40 major company joined that. I'm surprised by the number because only we started like two months.
We see that the decentralized infrastructure as a giant CRM and so it's a new way for for company to work together to, to change the way they engage with customers. So we started from Japan, but I think we, by end of this year, we try to increase the number of the company 200 and also extend outside Japan. And so maybe that could also connect to the, again, in the near future.
The second thing, I believe I'm true, we river of the, when we talk of adoption, the brownfield is quite important world for me because there's a lot of failure in the past also in Japan we have like things like called information banking, which we try to move everything, you know, from A to B, you know, it's like very greenfield approach is not quite successful because you can never expect to change, you know, the, the regular mass act, the behavior, sometimes you need to embed the, the, the experience into that.
So then since I'm from telecom industry, I'm having the very interesting discussion with our or r and d guy from the middle, medium to long term that we think, maybe think about like in the six G era, I know everybody's satisfied with 5G, but there's things called six G will come in the 66 G era.
Maybe you don't need a sim card anymore. Use vc.
Very, very variable credential as a way you connect to the to network and which is like tokenized for example, the price plan that you can share with. You can, you can send a gift to a to a to a friend or maybe if you have half unused you can like sell that to the somebody else. I think that's true. How should I say really brownfield approach because they will deeply integrate that into the or in know telecom source because this a still some, you know, like high level discussion.
I'm not saying we're doing that, but just to give you an example, how we make this brownfield approach to to, to expand to the massage.
Yeah, and I think tel Tel obviously be interested 'cause there's a lot of people in telcos that's easy. The adoption is is interesting.
So, so Eric, sorry,
So I've already talked about interoperability, but I, one other thing that I want to take people to take home is the lifetime of identity. So one of the challenges we face is I might produce a piece of content today and you might come across it a decade from now. How are we sure that the, the credentials that I've used today are still comprehensible by you technically tomorrow. And maybe they change, you know, maybe I change my name or some other thing happens. How do we have that also follow me over time?
Those are one of the interesting challenges that we're, we're facing. Go ahead. Drummond.
Interoperability. Interoperability. Interoperability. Okay. It's the bottom line is we have to get really, we, we've been through the innovation stage, we have a lot of choices out there. Now we have to go through the hard work of how are we actually gonna connect ecosystem, the ecosystem to start to derive the exponential value. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the internet. Look what has made possible.
We, if we're gonna have the internet of trust, we gotta solve the same problem. Yeah,
Yeah. So from our per, from a, from a, from a fragment perspective, our goal obviously is to streamline the mobility process, right? We are running a number of, of proofs of concept actually combining the gen AI side of it with the, with the digital identity, digital wallet verifiable credentials. Because really the goal here is to take the mystery out of the process, right?
And be able to be very informative and let people understand exactly why they're providing certain piece of information for what component of their process. And at the end of the day, passing them back something in a secure way that's trustworthy, that's verifiable and allows 'em, as I said, to move from point A to point B. So that's where we are at
Gabriel.
Yeah, and maybe just to add to German, so beyond INTERABILITY is open ecosystem, open ecosystem, open ecosystem. So things only have value if you can use them as well. The more you use them, the more they have value. So if we do close ecosystem, it'll have limited value.
So really, so I hope we've also given you a taste of the potential of the use case in the airline industry. The scales, the decentralization, the existence of governance framework. So if you interested, feel free to reach out, especially if you provide open wallets.
Yeah, and I would say that's for everybody. And if I was just gonna say, one thing I wanna say is data utility. So that's my big buzzword. Data utility. I come from the AI space and in AI we, we talk about data effluence. So that's the data that you use, but you don't actually value it because it's not the end point. But the data could be super valuable to somebody else. So we should think of every, every piece of data is valuable to somebody and we wanna give individuals utility over all their data. So that's my message for today.
So thank you everybody for joining us for this and look forward to talking to you again.